new bat rule

Fellow Umpires: Same thing as above issue with Mr. Ramirez, happened to me at Vacaville. The head coach of Vacaville was absent due to family problems, so the asst. coaches did not know about the new rule, and they only had 2 bats that did not have the BBCOR on them, but had the BESR approved. So, one of the coaches took his Iphone and they were on the CIF Website approved. The coach of Rodriguez High, told us he had a copy , and showed it to us and the DeMartini bats were there. Like Mr. Ramirez, I have seen so many bats, and is hard for me to tell one from the other, but, we got together with all the coaches and got words from them, that they were O.K. with our decision to go on with the game. In the end, Vacaville team only used 2 bats for the whole 7 innings. I agree to put the liability on them, and always have your partner listening with you. Stay away from any problems.
Manuel Provedor

Having put 2 kids through the Catholic School system, be warned, ....those parents usually have more money to hire better lawyers.  Also, and it is probably a stereotype but, Lawyers kids go to the same private schools, so, the when it comes time for the injured kids parents to Lawyer shop, the parents only have to borrow the student's cell phone.

It is my understanding that the current bat standard, (note the word standard), stems from a pitcher taking line drive to the head, during the 2010 season. 

If the next player taking a line drive to the head, as a result of a BESR bat, and NOT on accepted list,  and YOU have the misfortune of being (one) of the Umpires on the field, who's name do you think that kid's Lawyer will make sure to include on his list of people he is suing ?  Anything that, by rule, is required to be labeled as having met a standard, and that equipment is NOT labeled as meeting that standard, and NOT being on the exception list,  yet you let equipment into the game, well.........

It is the School/Coach responsibility to supply the team, with proper equipment.  If team shows up with illegal equipment, doesn't mean you are obligated to look the other way, or cut the team a, "one time good deal".

When you let the team/coach slide by one time, and in the next game, I throw out all of his bats, the coach WILL say, "..... the Umpire we had last game...."  

If you throw it out the first game, and I throw it out of the 2nd game, and Billy Bob throws it out of tomorrow's game, well...... maybe coach will get tried of putting it in the equipment bag.
 
Also, think of this: Score Vis 3 - Home 0,  Bottom 7,  2 Out, bases loaded, full count. The batter hits a game winning Grand Slam with the BESR bat.  As the catcher kicks the bat in disgust, he notices this bat is the same make & model his parents gave him for Christmas but,  HIS coach said, (rightfully), he can not use.  Catcher picks up the bat, goes to his dugout,  talks to his coach.  Visiting Coach protests game, Illegal bat............  now what ?

I hope you see the error of the St. Mary's coach logic.  Legal last year, don't mean legal this year!

irst, we have been given direction from NCOA on how to handle the bat situation. Illegal bats are to be removed prior to the plate meeting. If you aren't sure, ask the manager to verify the legality of the questioned bat. If he cannot, remove it! If the team has only one legal bat, or none for that matter, so be it. Make sure you ask if all their equipment is legal at the plate meeting and make sure both managers give you a reply. Should a defensive player or manager question a bat being used at the plate, make the offensive manager prove it's legal. If it is not, get rid of the bat and call the batter out. If you are not sure remove the bat. If you want to carry a list do so.
We have been told that if we follow these guidelines we will not be legally held responsible. I'm not an attorney and we are not expected to act like one but whinning about being liable in a law suit is counterproductive. You have a job to do, just do it! 

I guess I didn't make myself clear.  I am doing exactly what I am suppose to.  No illegal bats were used in any of my games.  Verification on the bats being legal was done by cell phone or a print out.  Whats your problem with that?  We face liability everytime we step on the field because we are in charge of enforcing rules that are there for the players safety so it is a big deal.  All I was trying to point out is that enforcing the new bat rule isn't as hard as it seemed it would be.  Roy, I am very familiar with what my what my job is and I and I work hard to do the right thing.  Dave read what I wrote after the St. Marys coaches comment.  I did not say I agreed with him.     

Guys

I think each of you have brought up areas of concern that are legit. Tom you appear to have followed the procedure that was given to us at the CIF rules interpretation meeting by Ken Allen the rules interpreter for CIF. It is the coaches responsibility to insure their players are complying with the equipment rules. When we ask at the plate meeting if their players are properly equipped the bats are part of this. We should be specifically asking the coach when inspecting the bats if any BESR composite bats are part of the approved list and if he can prove they are if need be. At this point we have done our part according to CIF to insure the proper bats are being used.

If there are bats on the exception list at the plate meeting you should also make sure the head coach makes a certifying statement at the plate meeting so the other coach has heard this also. I have been using at all my plate meeting " are your players properly equipped, including using legal bats?". We cannot control if someone sneaks in an illegal bat. The coaches are the authority figure closest to the player that have this ability. They need to be the responsible party.

Now if something happens the both umpires in California will most likely be named in the lawsuit even if they have done everything right. You do not have to have done something wrong to be sued. The best thing you can do is be responsible in your actions, remind the coaches that providing proper bats for play is the schools and coaches responsibility. As a third party this is our best defense if something happens. Now make sure you never knowingly allow an illegal bat to be used. That would put the liability right back in your court.

To all of those posting. This is a good conversation for us to have. Your diverse views help to high light this issue.

I have already emailed Tom an apology for any misunderstanding concerning my earlier comment. I was not directing the "do your job" statement toward Tom even though it my have appeared so. Some of us are more worried about being sued rather than doing the right thing. We can be sued by anyone at anytime. However, if we follow proper procedure and use some common sense we should be all right. My comment was to suggest that we all should look in the mirror and instead of complaining, figure out a way to solve the problem.   
  

Thank you all for you efforts in properly enforcing the C.I.F. bat rules this year. I know everyone is going to great pains to help protect our student athletes and programs. Your efforts are appreciated by C.I.F., the section, J.S.S. and our NCOA group.

With the help of Jerry Westfall, I have posted a one (1) page BESR waiver reference list to conveniently help everyone enforce this rule. This reference will eliminate the need to carry carrying multi-page bat lists during our games. This list is now posted in all our classroom instruction manuals and the Coaches Corner as well.

All Coaches have been encouraged to help out by carrying this list to help with bat check issues. We as officials may also play a part in helping our baseball community by carrying this list as well. Imagine the respect you can build with a coaching staff by being part of the solution during pre-game bat checks if you have the reference list to properly enforce the safety of our sport.

Here is the link: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B06QR...

Thanks again for your cooperation and efforts in this matter ... Swanny

Dave, it seems that you are relatively new to our family of dedicated fellow umpires, I may be wrong. I have read where you are very criticizing of the final exam, and now of the bat issue, with regards, not to the constructive side of things, but to the side where you sound demeaning to our brothers and sisters. Please remember that we will be working together on the field and will be entrusted to have each others back in all aspects of what we do, rules enforcement, judgment calls, HELP when asked, and so on. I personally become concerned when I wonder about my "partner" and his/her willingness to be approachable and open minded, or is he/she a soloist. 
I took the final exam and was really looking for the errors and misleading questions that you had brought up, and quite frankly, couldn't find hardly any. Example, purposely dropping an "infield pop up" I got wrong because I did not read it carefully enough. The wording was that the infielder allowed the ball to drop in front of him, he never touched it, that is legal. I was sure that the answer to the question was wrong! But it got me deep into the book which is what the true intent of the test is for. See rule 8-4-1c. Here' the best part, I will always remember that particular rule and play. That is what we are to come away with in taking these exams, instructions, clinics, and so on. We cannot govern by fear of litigation and profile anyone or any group. We simply do our job as outlined by the CIF and NFHS, be smart about this, and all things that can occur. I believe that if this type of thinking becomes all too pervasive then it will distract from what we are to be doing on the field, and that's when bad things will truly happen.
When working a freshman or JV game, you are probably by yourself, so the plate meeting becomes very important with regards to having both coaches acknowledge the "properly and safely equipped and all equipment is legal" disclosure. This gives you your "witness" should something bad happen. You may even ask each coach to confirm the others statement.
Sincerely, Mike Faudoa  

Thanks for eloquently saying what I was not able to convey. I was always advised not to complain about something without offering a solution. Your comments were right on point. Thanks  

OHHHH JJEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZUUUUUUUUZZZZZZZZ,

Lighten up, everyone PLEASE!!!!

First, on the bat issue, I didn't criticize ANYONE or ANYTHING.  Someone (Tom), had a comment, about the bat issue.  I offered 2 story lines, one involving lawyers and one story line  involved A GWRBI Grand Slam and an alert catcher.

Sometimes, offering hypothetical examples, and then having other people think the situation through is a way of learning, and then, I don't have to offer a solution because, the solution has presented itself.

Mike, Yeah, I'm relatively new to THIS organization. I'm part of the wayward souls from the outlaying western counties that got adopted over the winter.  (OK, don't take offence at that too).  Have it your way, I'm a rookie, with 20 + years experience.

Each year, we, out here in the western outer lands have been warned, cautioned, told, and pleaded with, and begged, to not do anything that could get you in front of a judge.  And trust me when I say, at least one of us is involved with talking to Lawyers.  From what I hear, it ain't fun.  I know, every time I step on the field the possibility of litigation exists, yet, I am not paranoid. 

Tom or Mike, If you can find any part of my Bat post that is demeaning to ANYONE within the NCOA, let me know.  

The one big fallacy of the Internet is the inability of e-mails or chat room posts is to hear the voice inflection, tonal range, and trember of the human voice.  In short the Internet post tend to do de-humanize you. 

That being said, and moving on the the test post,  Yes, I  was critical of the TEST QUESTIONS.  Donna and Greg came down on me pretty hard.    Let me say this, believe it or not, the Federation is a BUSSINES.  The Federation is HQ'ed in a building not to far from my mom and dad's house, in Indianapolis.  People actually draw a paycheck from the Federation.  The information that I was given was,  "The Federation" wrote the test.  Everyone in our organization, from first year rookie to the guy with the most years behind the mask, is required to take the test.  The test did not originate on SacUmpire.  The test originates from a computer hidden in the bowels of an office building, in Indianapolis, Indiana

It may not matter to Donna how many she missed, but it does to me, (OK, I'll admit I didn't do so well the first time through).  A test is a way of judging a person's qualification for certain jobs/professions/privileges,  (contractor/nurse, doctor/driver's license).  It is also a measurement as to a person's promotion potential,  working out of the Frosh games, moving to the JV games, to the Varsity games, to the Playoff games.  The time for study passed as soon as you began the test. Why are test given on the last day of school ? 

Now, since The Federation is a business, and the test is used to determine if/when/where I work, I should not have to guess what the question is.  Likewise, when I finally, sort of, kind of, almost, maybe, figure out what the question is, and I am presented 2 possible answers, and like I said, 2 answers composed of misspelled words, and sentence fragments, I do get more than a little peeved.  The test is written by people who got  paid to write the test.  Since the "Federation," is a business, (and the people who wrote the test, were paid to write the test),  the words should be spelled right.  Also, the correct answer should be available. 

Mike mentions about the dropped ball, that is one of the ambiguous questions.  Another question is, the color of the umpires pants,  Heather Grey and Grey are 2 different colors.  Yet, if you answer the way the book says, you will be wrong.  OK, I just gave away a test answer to someone....... sorry to those who got it wrong prior to reading this.

From what I have heard from a high school classmate who works in the Federation, the people who write the test, or work for the Federation, don't even bother to attend High School games, in Indianapolis, (unless of course their kid is a participant).  Very few, if any, Federation employees, officiate. And yes, if i can retrieve the questions,  I will present the questionable questions to the upper echelons within the organization.

I closing, if anyone took offense to the post about the test,  My complaint lays with the Federation, producing a poorly written test.

I don't want to belabor some of these testing or group issues ... But, maybe we can sooth many here if we educate everyone on the testing process and how tests are created & hosted by our website ...

What are our goals for testing here? The purpose of the rules tests for our group is to get members in the book - no more. It isn't to prove how good everyone is. It isn't to compare scores. It is to use the test as a high tech version of computer "flash cards" to enhance rules study. If members understand the rules concepts and can apply them on the field, that really is our objective.

We have purposefully made these tests "pass/fail" to reduce some of these issues. We leave the test open almost year round so it can be a tool for anyone to just take a few questions at a time to enhance learning through out the year.

Many groups use rules testing as their primary mode of training & ranking of members. It's something that is easy to do because there is a ton of material available. We have chosen to concentrate on the positioning aspects of umpiring because that's where we can make the biggest impact on any umpire's game. It takes a lot more work for everyone - instructors & students - to do this, but it is the direction we have chosen to go for now ...

What are the sources of our test questions? Wording is always a problem for every test. So much so that early in the development of this program we determined our time was better spent developing other instruction material. We use many sources for questions - N.F.H.S., N.C.A.A. and other associations ...

Why are there mistakes in the test questions? Most of this material does not come in "clean" formats. It needs to be scanned using optical character recognition (OCR) software. Then proofed for accuracy and formated into some semblance that can be copied and pasted into entry windows in the SacUmpires.com hosting software. Figure that there are probably close to 20-30 different keyboard manipulations for each test question. Between recognition to manipulation, there are plenty of opportunities for errors.

It probably takes about 12-15 hard hours of work to format and input a 100 question test. Once anyone has seen the same questions or formatting that long, you won't be able to find some of the simple mistakes that are obvious in any one question when it is presented on the website during a test. They all just start looking the same ... Believe me ...

The membership is an important component in improving and developing our material because as anyone looks material long enough, you reach the point of diminishing returns and just don't notice the mistakes. It's just tough to concentrate that long especially when there are impending time constraints ...

Some recently reported errors are:

2% is really supposed to be 2 1/2 - sometimes the OCR software cannot pick up the subtle, smaller characters like 1/2 and interpret it as %.

Sentence fragments within questions can be as simple as "highlighting" or "copy & paste" errors during input.

Repeat questions are probably just a tired entry person forgetting if they had entered that question at 1:00 or 2:00am in the morning ...

All our questions are hosted in the SacUmpires.com server. There are no secret Federation or NCAA databases that we tap into. It is all our hard work to create something in our spare time for you all to work with and learn from.

Our server software is an "opensource" software project that is continually being developed by volunteers world-wide. Various software "bugs" are reported and volunteers work to find fixes for them. All this occurs in a collaborative way. It's a case of the many working to improve a product that can help a lot of groups in many ways.

I hope that we all grow into this type of model and method but related to our specialty & passion - umpiring ... I hope that we can all take the same view of our instruction program. We are an "opensource" instruction program where the power of many helps to build a better, stronger product to improve our umpire community and the programs that rely on it. All of your help is needed to help develop these items and our overall program to extend them to their logical benefits and conclusions.

If we can all work in more neutral tones, we can do this together. If anyone finds problems on the test or any instruction material, there are ways to report it. Each instruction manual has a link called "NCOA Instruction Material Corrections". It can be clicked and report any problem with the instruction material so we can, when time permits, correct and improve our instruction material and program for everyone's benefit.

I hope that we can harness some of this energy to useful purposes in the near future. I will be looking for members to help administer and operate the group and instruction program so we can continue our progress. The last five (5) years have been countless hours volunteered by a few for the benefit of many.

Now we need to spread the workload out and involve more people to help develop the community needed to perpetuate this program. I hope all of you will join me in that effort in the coming couple of months as the group begins recruiting for more administrative help to support our activities.

Thanks for your thoughts and help ... Swanny

Swanny & others,

OK........ That being the case, perhaps, I have made a mistake.

It was not in intent to harm, or insult someone within the organization, with regards to the test.   If  did, I'll fall upon my own sword.  I will also say, I am sorry for that.  Again, not my intent.

During our pregame bat check tonight, we came across a bat that at first glance we thought was legal as it was on the BESR exemption list -- its was a LVS Triton.  However on closer inspection,  we noted the actual model number did not match the model number on the BESR exception list which we had in hand so we removed the bat.  the team also had a LVS Triton with the correct model number which we allowed....lesson -- make sure the model number and bat type match up....

Steve,

What would you have done if the model number had been worn off or unreadable?  Just throwing that out there for thought.

Fellow Umpires: The last time I wrote to you, I asked for all of you to "Just take the test and enjoy it". Well, I TOOK THE TEST AND ENJOYED IT BECAUSE I PASSED IT,  and I did not find any ambigous wording/situations. The questions were exactly what I expected, everyone of them related to plays and situations that we see happen on the field, and to which we umpires must react and make quick decisions. The main objectives of these tests are to get us deep into the book, and I had to do that. I DID the same thing Mr. Faudoa DID, read the questions, but I was too quick answering thinking were too easy, and got them WRONG. That's when I realized I better read the book deeply and understand them better. To conclude, just remember, "if you do not pass it the first time, you have a chance to take it again. We're all brothers of this great organization we call NCOA, let's keep it that way. To me it is always a pleasure to do a game with my NCOA partner. Thanks.
Manuel Provedor

After reading your "what if", I think I would have thrown the bat out. Better safe than sorry.